Cannabis legalization bill faces overhaul in NH Senate

DRUGS COVERED BY MEDICARE. GOOD MORNING. I’M ADAM SEXTON. A STATE REP RECENTLY COMPARED NEW HAMPSHIRE’S EXTENDED STRUGGLE WITH THE ISSUE OF CANNABIS LEGALIZATION TO THE MOVIE GROUNDHOG DAY, IN WHICH THE MAIN CHARACTER KEEPS LIVING THE SAME DAY OVER AND OVER AND OVER. WELL, WE’RE BACK HERE AGAIN TO TALK ABOUT YET ANOTHER BILL TO BRING LEGAL RECREATIONAL MARIJUANA TO NEW NEW HAMPSHIRE. IT’S PROBABLY GOING TO PASS THE HOUSE. THE BIG QUESTION MARK IS CAN IT EARN MAJORITY SUPPORT IN THE STATE SENATE? TO FIND OUT. WE HAVE WITH US TODAY, SENATOR DARRELL ABBAS OF SALEM AND SENATOR CINDY ROSENWALD OF NASHUA. THANK YOU BOTH FOR JOINING US. HI. THANK YOU FOR HAVING US. SO, SENATOR ABBAS, YOU’RE CONSIDERED ONE OF THE SWING REPUBLICAN VOTES ON THIS. DEPENDING ON THE DETAILS, YOU COULD BE A YES OR A NO. THE LATEST BILL HAS STATE LICENSED STORES. YOU’VE BEEN A PROPONENT OF EITHER STATE CONTROL OR A STATE FRANCHISE STORE. SO WHAT IS THE DISTINCTION BETWEEN A STATE LICENSED STORE AND A STATE FRANCHISE STORE? SO JUST TO GET THIS OUT THERE AS WHAT WAS PASSED IN THE HOUSE YESTERDAY, I WOULD NOT SUPPORT THAT IF IT CAME TO THE SENATE. THE STATE CONTROL MODEL REALLY MODELS KIND OF HOW OUR LIQUOR IS SOLD AND AND I ALWAYS SAY WE’VE DONE THAT THE RIGHT WAY. WE’VE DONE IT THE RIGHT WAY SINCE SINCE THE PROHIBITION OF LIQUOR HAS BEEN, UH, RATIFIED IN OUR CONSTITUTION. SO, UH, REMOVED FROM THE CONSTITUTION, SO FOR ME, WHEN IT COMES TO THIS AGENCY STORES THAT THEY’RE TALKING ABOUT, THEY JUST REBRANDED IT THE TYPICAL RETAIL STORE MODEL. AND WE SAW WE’VE SEEN THAT FAIL IN EVERY OTHER STATE THAT’S DONE THIS. THE MARKET GETS OVERSATURATED. YOU HAVE A BLACK MARKET PROBLEM. ALL THOSE PROBLEMS THAT YOU’VE SEEN EVERY OTHER STATE DO THAT’S THIS AGENCY MODEL THAT THEY’RE A RETAIL OUTLETS THAT THEY’RE TITLING IT, UM, MAKES THAT MISTAKE WHEN IT’S THE FRANCHISE MODEL, THE STATE WOULD BE REALLY ACTING AS A FRANCHISE OR REALLY IN A PARTNERSHIP WITH THE FRANCHISEE. AND WHAT THAT DOES IT, IT OFFERS THE MARKET PROTECTION. SO A LARGER OTHER, UM, COMPANY OR A LARGER OPERATION CAN OVERSATURATE THE MARKET AND MANIPULATE THE SALE PRICES CAUSING THE SMALLER, UH, SMALLER PLACES TO GO UNDER. AND WE’VE SEEN THAT HAPPEN. TIME AND TIME AGAIN BY HAVING THAT PARTNERSHIP INVOLVEMENT, IT IS CRITICAL FOR THE PREVENTING THAT FROM HAPPENING. BUT ALSO THE BRANDING IDENTITY YOU SEE, WITH OUR NEW HAMPSHIRE LIQUOR STORES, THEY HAVE SIMILAR SIGNS, SIMILAR LOGOS. I THINK IT’S IMPORTANT WHEN YOU HAVE THAT SIMILAR IDENTITY AND SIMILAR BRANDING IDENTITY. IT’S IMPORTANT REALLY MOVING FORWARD ON THE PUBLIC PERCEPTION OF WHAT’S GOING TO BE OUT THERE WHEN YOU HAVE THESE AGENCY STORES, YOU WOULDN’T HAVE THAT. AND THERE’S OTHER DEGREES OF CONTROL THAT’S NOT THERE. THAT MYSELF, I WOULDN’T BE COMFORTABLE SUPPORTING SENATOR ROSENWALD, WHAT ARE YOUR THOUGHTS ON THIS CURRENT VERSION OF THE HOUSE BILL? AND IS IT WORTH IT JUST TO GET SOMETHING ACROSS THE FINISH LINE? A LOT OF YOUR FELLOW DEMOCRATS ARE SAYING THAT LET’S JUST PASS SOMETHING. WELL, I AGREE WITH SENATOR ABBAS THAT MORE STATE CONTROL IS PROBABLY BETTER FOR THE PROGRAM. IT WILL BE BETTER FOR PRICING FOR PRODUCT QUALITY, FOR LOCATION. UM, I JUST THINK IT’S PROBABLY THE BETTER WAY TO GO. I’M MORE OF A FAN OF THE FRANCHISE SIZE MODEL THAN THE STATE STORE MODEL, BECAUSE WE WOULD HAVE TO BUILD NEW STATE STORES COMPLETELY SEPARATE FROM OUR STATE LIQUOR STORES, HIGHER STATE EMPLOYEES. I JUST, I THINK THAT WOULD BE A LONGER A LONGER TIME TO GET THIS PROGRAM OFF THE MARKET. SO FOR ME, THE FRANCHISE MODEL REPRESENTS. ITS THE RIGHT KHON CONSENSUS AND COMPROMISE IS IN A FUN TWIST. BOTH OF YOU ARE FROM TOWNS OR CITIES BORDERING THE STATE LINE OF MASSACHUSETTS. ANECDOTALLY OR WITH YOUR OWN EYES. WHAT HAVE YOU SEEN IN TERMS OF PEOPLE WHO ARE ACTUALLY JUST DRIVING ACROSS THAT STATE LINE AND ACCESSING LEGAL CANNABIS IN MASS? SENATOR ROSENWALD, HOW ABOUT YOU? OKAY, SO I DO KNOW PEOPLE, NOT A LOT, BUT A FEW WHO GO DOWN TO KINGSBOROUGH AND, UM, IT’S HALF A MILE FROM THE PHEASANT LANE MALL. I KNOW ONE PERSON WHO TAKES THE BACK ROADS BACK BECAUSE SHE IS AFRAID THAT SHE’S GOING TO BE STOPPED ON THE EVERETT TURNPIKE. IF SOME SOMEONE SEES HER CAR WITH RECOGNIZABLE PLATES. I HAVE MYSELF DRIVEN AROUND THE PARKING LOT OF THAT STORE. IT’S TRUE THAT MOST OF THE CARS THERE HAVE NEW HAMPSHIRE LICENSE PLATES, AND WHAT I WAS SURPRISED BY WAS THAT THEY WERE NOT LIKE THE SMALL, RELATIVELY INEXPENSIVE CARS THAT A YOUNG PERSON WOULD START OUT WITH. THESE WERE BIG SUV FAMILY CARS. SO I THINK LIKE IT’S JUST THAT PEOPLE ARE WILLING TO TRAVEL NOT VERY FAR OVER THE STATE LINE BECAUSE THIS IS WHAT THEY WANT. WHAT ABOUT IN SALEM? SENATOR ABBAS? SO SALEM, WHERE I LIVE, BUT ALSO DISTRICT 22, PELHAM SALEM ACCIDENT. PLAISTOW. SO KINGSBOROUGH IS RIGHT THERE. I ALSO HAVE DRACUT AND THEN THERE’S THREE IN HAVERHILL AND AND ONE OF THE STORES IN HAVERHILL. IF YOU’RE IN THE PARKING LOT, YOU CAN ACTUALLY SEE THE WELCOME TO NEW HAMPSHIRE SIGN. IT’S THAT CLOSE. SO I KIND OF LOOK AT THIS THAT THE NEGATIVE SOCIAL IMPACTS THAT PEOPLE SPEAK OF. AND I KNOW THERE’S A DEBATE ON WHAT DEGREE OF THAT IS IN SOUTHERN NEW HAMPSHIRE, AT LEAST WHERE I LIVE, WE’RE ALREADY DEALING WITH IT. THE ONLY DIFFERENCE IS WE DON’T HAVE ANY CONTROL OVER THIS. AND WHAT THEY’RE DOING IS THEY’RE BASICALLY SURROUNDING US AND WE DON’T HAVE ANY SAY ON WHAT THEY SELL, HOW MUCH THEY CAN SELL, ANY OF THAT. BUT I THINK THE OTHER CONCERN I HAVE IS, IS THE AMOUNT OF STORES COULD BE A PROBLEM. AND I DON’T WANT A PLACE LIKE SALEM HAVING 6 OR 7 OF THESE CANNABIS STORES BEING, YOU KNOW, A MARIJUANA MILE, OUR STATE LIQUOR STORE, THERE’S ONE LIQUOR STORE IN SALEM. IT DOES VERY WELL. WHAT I UNDERSTAND, BUT I THINK A LOT OF PEOPLE LIKE MYSELF WHO HAVE YOUNG KIDS, IF THERE’S ONE STORE WE CAN LIVE WITH THAT IF THERE’S FIVE, SIX, THAT’S WHEN YOU’RE GOING TO START TO HEAR A LOT OF PEOPLE OBJECT TO IT. SO, AND GOVERNOR SUNUNU HAS SAID HE ONLY WANTS 15 STORES, NO MATTER WHAT THE MODEL IS. YOU KNOW, YOU’VE BEEN IN CONVERSATION WITH HIS OFFICE QUITE A BIT. SOME PEOPLE WERE TAKEN ABACK LAST YEAR WHEN THE GOVERNOR OFFICE CAME OUT AND SAID, IF IT’S A FRANCHISE MODEL, WHICH HE SAID HE’S OPEN TO DISCUSSING, HE WANTS A BAN ON POLITICAL CONTRIBUTIONS AND LOBBYING FROM WHOEVER THE FRANCHISEES END UP BEING. DO YOU KNOW IF THAT’S STILL ON THE GOVERNOR’S CHECKLIST FOR A BILL LIKE THIS? I KNOW THAT’S STILL BEING DISCUSSED, AND THE CONCERN IS IF YOU’RE IF YOU HAVE A BUNCH OF FRANCHISEES, YOU DON’T WANT THEM ARGUING AND FIGHTING AMONGST THEMSELVES AND WORKING AGAINST EACH OTHER BECAUSE AS A FRANCHISEE FRANCHISOR RELATIONSHIP IS REALLY A TEAM. AND IF THE TEAM’S NOT WORKING TOGETHER, IT CAN COLLAPSE. SO YOU DON’T WANT THESE FRAT. HE’S BASICALLY WORKING AGAINST EACH OTHER. THAT’S THE REASON WHY YOU WANT SOMETHING LIKE THAT. I DON’T THINK WE DID A GOOD JOB REALLY EXPRESSING THAT DURING THE COMMISSION, DURING THE IN THE FALL. SO I UNDERSTAND THERE’S THAT SIDE OF IT. THERE’S REALLY A FIDUCIARY RELATIONSHIP BETWEEN THESE AS A FRANCHISEE FRANCHISOR. SO IT WOULDN’T SIT WELL. AND YOU DON’T SEE THAT WITH OTHER FRANCHISES, WHETHER IT’S, YOU KNOW, FAST FOOD CHAIN WHERE THE FRANCHISEE IS ADVOCATING AGAINST THE INTERESTS OF THE FRANCHISE, OR SO I THINK WHEN THERE IS THAT RELATIONSHIP, YOU DON’T WANT THAT TO HAPPEN. SENATOR ROSENWALD, CAN SOMEBODY LEGALLY BAR A COMPANY FROM FROM LOBBYING AND CONTRIBUTING POLITICALLY? WELL, HE’S THE LAWYER. I’M NOT. BUT I WOULD SAY THAT THERE IS NO BAN IN THE HOUSE BILL AGAINST LOBBYING FROM A LEGALITY PERSPECTIVE OF SOMEONE’S VOLUNTARILY ENTERING INTO THIS AGREEMENT IN ADVANCE. NO THING IF THEY DO THAT, THERE’S SOME RESTRICTIONS ON WHAT THEY’RE LOBBYING. IF THEY DON’T WANT, IF THEY DON’T WANT TO HAVE THAT RESTRICTION, THEY’RE NOT THEY DON’T HAVE TO ENTER THE FRANCHISEE AGREEMENT. BEFORE WE WRAP UP, I WANT TO TOUCH ON THE THERAPEUTIC CANNABIS. A LOT OF PEOPLE ARE WORRIED ABOUT THE PATIENTS. SOME OF THEM DON’T WANT TO BECOME, QUOTE UNQUOTE, REGULAR CUSTOMERS OF A RETAIL STORE. SENATOR ROSENWALD, WHAT NEEDS TO HAPPEN TO IS THERE NEED TO BE A CARVE OUT OF SOME KIND FOR THESE PEOPLE? WELL, I, I THINK THAT’S REALLY INTERESTING. AND I’VE TALKED WITH SENATOR ABBAS ABOUT THIS. WE BOTH AGREE THAT YOU WOULDN’T WANT TO TAKE AN UNSUCCESSFUL ON THE VERGE OF BANKRUPTCY ATC AND SAY, SURE, YOU CAN HAVE HAVE A RECREATIONAL LICENSE, BUT WE DO HAVE OF BETWEEN 2000 503,000 PATIENT USE A YEAR. THOSE WHO ARE GOING TO THE ATC S AND DEPEND ON THEM. SO I THINK WE NEED TO DO SOMETHING TO MAKE SURE THAT THEY ARE NOT PUT OUT OF BUSINESS. AND I COULD SEE, FOR EXAMPLE, IF THERE’S AN ATC, AN ALTERNATIVE TREATMENT CENTER IN A TOWN THAT DOESN’T OPT IN TO RECREATIONAL, WHERE DOES THAT LEAVE THAT ATC? THEY WON’T BE ABLE TO CONVERT IT. THEY’RE PROBABLY NOT GOING TO BE ABLE TO STAY SUCCESSFUL. MAYBE THEY HAVE TO MOVE OUT OF THAT TOWN AND QUICKLY. SENATOR, DO YOU THINK THERE SHOULD BE A CARVE OUT FOR THE THERAPEUTIC CANNABIS? WELL, ONE OF THE PROPOSALS I PUT, I’M I WANT TO PUT INTO THE LEGISLATION IS THAT EVERY FRANCHISE AUSSIE WOULD BE ALLOWED TO SELL THERAPEUTIC GRADE PRODUCTS, AND THAT REALLY IS A BENEFIT FOR THEM. FOR ALL THE ATC’S. AND THEY’LL HAVE MORE POINTS OF DISTRIBUTION IN. AND THAT’